Kent took up the role of ambassador in January 2023 and served for two years. The previous ambassador James D. Melville, Jr. resigned from the position in 2018 over Trump and there was a five-year gap until the next representative was appointed.
But this time, Kent’s replacement – Roman Pipko – has already been announced. Pipko is an Estonian-born lawyer who emigrated to the USA in the 1980s with this family.
The interview touches on the military relationship between Estonia and the U.S., Russia’s hybrid warfare and sanctioning the shadow fleet, America’s aid for Ukraine, Donald Trump’s plans, and Kent’s views on Estonian favorites such as sauna, sült and blood sausage.
The ambassador also called Estonia’s security services – particularly the Internal Security Services – the “most effective” in the region at responding to Russia’s hybrid attacks: “Not just in Estonia, but in countries all over Europe and the United States.”
You can watch the full interview with George P Kent, filmed on January 16, above or read the transcript below.
George P. Kent. Source: Priit Mürk/ERR
Maria-Ann Rohemäe (ERR): You are leaving at a pretty contentious time in the region. Russia has started a full-on hybrid war, I would say. Do you think that people in Washington actually understand how serious the situation is here ?
George P Kent: I do, and I think that is evident by what we, the U.S., collectively are working through NATO, the NATO new mission in the Baltic Sea. The fact that for the last several years we have had an enhanced presence of our troops not only here in Estonia, but all along the eastern flank, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and Romania. In fact, this week there’s a story on ERR’s website about the arrival of a heavy so-called cavalry unit that’s moving into Camp Rado, a newly constructed base that the Estonians have built for allies.
The unit that is arriving this month with Bradley fighting machines will be the first occupants. I think that’s also the base, if there were an attack by Russia, the British Brigade, Expeditionary Brigade, would come and occupy that base. So I think what it shows is, Estonia is serious about building out infrastructure. Britain, as the lead NATO nation for Estonia, is serious about being prepared to send an expeditionary brigade, and the United States is serious by sending for the first time a heavy cavalry unit with Bradley fighting vehicles to be here in Estonia to train with our Estonian allies.
How will it actually help the cooperation between our troops?
Well, I think we have a number of different units here in Estonia and I’d give another example.
At Tapa in the Northeast, we have a HIMARs Task Force and HIMARs – this long-range precision artillery system – was known about by experts for years, but after the wider war in Ukraine started and we provided HIMARs to Ukraine, it became very clear this was a system that was critical to the current way of fighting war. And Estonia knew that, and they had put in a request to buy HIMARs systems before it became a household name.
Magnus Saar, who is the head of the Defense Industrial Center of the Estonian military, was in Arkansas this week and was taking delivery of the Estonian HIMARs. They still have some final elements to be added and painted, but they will be here in Estonia shortly and the munitions will also be following shortly.
With the U.S. HIMARs that have been here for two years, Estonian units understand how the system works, how to integrate it and work with other Estonian units. That experience of two years of very close cooperation and training will accelerate the ability of Estonia to use this new system – precision long-range fires – which is integral to the Estonian defense plan.
As you mentioned, after the war in Ukraine, there’s more and more interest in U.S. Weapons. The problem has been that the producing of the weapons has not been as quick. Do you think the situation is better now?
I would say this is a challenge for the entire [NATO] alliance. It’s very clear it’s a challenge for U.S. companies. It’s also a challenge for European companies.
NATO countries took the peace step in the 1990s, and we reduced our defense industrial base’s ability to produce munitions and systems. Russia’s wider invasion three years ago, a war it started 11 years ago in 2014, has shown that not just to help Ukraine, but to prepare our own militaries, all members of NATO need to produce more. So that’s a challenge for North America, U.S., and Canada, as well as the European members of the alliance. Our companies need to up their production rate, as does European companies. Estonia has this initiative to start producing munitions on Estonian territory. The European members of NATO honestly struggled to meet the challenge of the Estonian million shell initiative for Ukraine. That again was because of not enough industrial base in Europe.
So that is an alliance-wide challenge.
Ambassador Kent at a ceremony for U.S. Army soldiers in Võru on Friday. March 10, 2023. Source: mil.ee
The departing Joe Biden administration has been criticized a lot for not giving help to Ukraine as quickly as needed. Do you agree with this criticism?
The United States over the last three years has given over a hundred billion dollars in assistance to Ukraine, 69 billion [dollars] of which is security assistance, more than 35 [billion dollars of] economic assistance and another almost 4 billion [dollars] of humanitarian assistance.
I worked on Ukraine policy for six years in Kyiv and in Washington. If you had asked me three years ago, can you imagine the U.S. providing a billion dollars in aid to Ukraine in three years, I would have said, “not possible.” So I think what we did was more than anyone would have expected. It wasn’t enough. Other allies collectively have given more than the United States. But collectively, other allies and the United States, what we did for Ukraine was not enough for Ukraine to win. I think that has to be kept in mind.
The goal is for Ukraine to win. And we all could have done more, and we all need to do more going forward.
Will the new administration do more?
The new administration starts next Monday [January 20] and I think we will wait and see what the new policies and initiatives are.
The Trump administration and Trump himself has talked a lot about achieving peace in Ukraine. Is peace possible?
I think peace is possible. Nobody wants peace more than Ukrainians who are fighting and dying on their own territory. It’s very clear that one person could stop the war, and it’s the person who started the war, and that is Russian President Putin. The aspiration for peace is a noble one. But as the former Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas said, peace without justice is not peace, it’s occupation. Estonia experienced that for 50 years, starting in 1940. Parts of Ukraine have experienced that since 2014, for the past 11 years, starting with Crimea and eastern Ukraine and Donbas.
The failed efforts of the Minsk process, which started in late 2014 and continued through the wider invasion in 2022, is a cautionary signal. People can want peace, people can have meetings, but until Russia is willing to stop its murderous war, the fighting will continue.
Do you think that Russia is willing right now to come to the negotiating table?
I think Russia is always willing to hear whether other countries are willing to meet Russia’s terms. That’s not a way to peace, that’s a way to capitulation.
I think what the United States has done in the past week is increase sanctions against Russia – sanctions on Russia’s energy sector, which is generating money used to build weapons to kill Ukrainians –, sanctions on its military sector, as well as those who enable the Russian military machine. That includes companies from China, Malaysia, the Gulf Emirates, and even Turkiye. So I think that putting the additional pressure on Russia through sanctions is absolutely critical. And again, we have done a lot collectively. We should have done more in the past, and we need to do more going forward.
Ambassador Kent and Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya at the opening of the ‘Belarus = Europe’ exhibition in Tammsaare Park. Source: Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya’s Office
The U.S. also finally sanctioned Russia’s shadow fleet. Do you think that that should have happened earlier as well? It is not something new, the shadow fleet has been in existence for a long time.
The G7 collectively started sanctioning Russian oil with the oil price cap that started in 2022, even before I came here to Estonia. What happened after that was the Russians started adopting, unfortunately, best practices from Iran on how to evade sanctions.
There were a lot of ships that were actually previously controlled by Greek shipping companies that were sold off through shell companies and then controlled by Russia, the so-called shadow fleet.
It’s very clear, three years, on that everybody, to include the EU, should have taken much stronger steps when Greek companies started selling those ships to shell companies. That’s a security challenge. It’s a financial challenge with cutting off flows to Russia and it’s now, as we’re seeing, an ecological challenge.
The worst accidents have happened so far in the Black Sea, but some of the shadow fleet ships here in the Baltic Sea pose a great ecological danger to Estonia, Finland, Germany, Sweden, and other states around the Baltic Sea.
Why has it taken so long, then?
I think many international mechanisms were designed, international treaties, on the presumption that countries work together. For instance, the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), critical to ensuring commerce continuing to flow, access for innocent passage as it’s known. What happens if passage isn’t so innocent?
I don’t think when UNCLOS was written, the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, in the 1970s, anyone imagined that a country would weaponize commercial tankers and potential anchor drags to damage critical infrastructure. That is now the world we are in, and the legal regime is not yet prepared to deal with it.
I think the meeting of the Baltic countries that are members of NATO this week, co-hosted by the Finnish President [Alexander] Stubb and the Estonian Prime Minister [Kristen] Michal, was a very good first step. Countries that are members of NATO but are around the Baltic Sea, looking at the steps they can take in their exclusive economic zone waters individually, collectively, to protect their own critical infrastructure, their economies, and their environment.
How can we actually fight Russia’s hybrid warfare?
I’m someone who, I know this term is often times used, [but] it is, I think, inadequate. I actually like to use the Russian term of art, which is active measures. It was a doctrine developed by the Bolsheviks in the 1920s, using methods short of actual conventional war to undermine societies that are deemed adversaries. There’s a disinformation component to that, there is a sabotage component of that. It’s a matter of damaging other countries’ economic infrastructure, as well as the will of their peoples and their governments to resist pressure from Russia.
While the year is 2025 and we’re dealing with Vladimir Putin’s Russia, it has a heritage of 100 years coming out of Bolshevik Russian efforts, which were based on imperial Russian efforts. This is the Russian way of war, not conventional, but ways of contesting with other states.
Again, I think our own understanding of how interstate interactions happen did not account for the Russian way of undermining states that they perceive as adversaries, and that includes Estonia and the United States. Our challenge then is to figure out how our societies can be resilient and what steps can we take to prevent those actions from gaining their effect.
One step is to strengthen our law enforcement ability to fight financial crimes, crypto crime, corruption, and other ways of weaponizing our economies and our financial systems to damage our economies and help Russia. So I think one of the great achievements of the last couple of years, something that was announced last week, the United States signed an agreement to transfer $50 million as part of the Danske Bank [money laundering] fine to Estonia, and that money will be used to increase Estonia and regional efforts to fight those types of crimes that I discussed. Oftentimes carried out by people affiliated with Russia to make money to transfer technology to Russia and undermine the integrity of countries like Estonia and the United States.
Georgia Kent during Defense Secretary LLoyd Austin’s visit to Estonia on February 16, 2023. Source: Priit Mürk/ERR
But they will continue to try to damage our infrastructure. So when will we say that, no, this is a real war? It’s past hybrid warfare. It’s just actually their steps into a real war.
I think now then this is when definitions matter. There are certain laws of war that come into effect when armies conventional actions are taken against each other.
That’s not where we are, at least with Russia and members of NATO, or specifically Estonia. So I think the first step, the current phase, is having an organization as effective as KAPO [the Internal Security Service] is here in Estonia. You relentlessly pursue those who are taking actions on behalf of Russia, trying to undermine Estonia. If people are breaking windows of journalists and the interior minister, track them down, arrest them, put them in jail. If somebody is a spy working as a professor in Tartu, expose them, arrest them, put them in jail. If you’re a propagandist who’s planning to try to divide society by telling stories about these actions, Alan Hansom, gather evidence, prosecute him, put him in jail.
I think Estonia, and particularly KAPO’s work, is the most effective of any of the regional responses to date to these sort of active measures, hybrid sabotage, that Russians and agents of Russia are carrying out. Not just in Estonia, but in countries all over Europe and the United States.
Almost seven years ago now, I asked then president and now incoming president Trump a question. And it was, does he see Vladimir Putin as a friend or a foe? And it was a long answer, but the gist of it was” “We’ll see.” How does he see Vladimir Putin now?
I’m the U.S. Ambassador to Estonia, President-elect Trump becomes president again on Monday [January 20], and I will let the president and the White House speak for him on that matter.
But he has said that he has a personal relationship with Putin. Do you agree?
He has met with Russian leader Putin, most notably in Helsinki in 2018. In the past, the first Trump administration also explored the possibility of negotiating.
Currently, we have the special envoy for Ukraine and Russia, General Keith Kellogg. Eight years ago, it was Kurt Volker. Then, when I was also working on Ukraine policy, there were meetings with Russians. It was very clear the Russians were not serious about an actual peace agreement.
So there will be meetings, and we’ll see how that process goes forward.
But going back to my earlier answer, the person who can end this war is Vladimir Putin, and he has shown no interest in the last 11 years in ending a war which is, by his design, intended to destroy Ukraine.
Do you agree that meeting with him will actually bolster him?
I think whether the meeting is with Russians or with Russian leader Putin, we’ll see about the sequencing. I think there is the concern, since he is an indicted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes, that particularly allowing him to travel to countries that support the International Criminal Court does lend him some credence. I think part of the challenge of diplomacy is you meet not just with your friends, but the people you consider adversaries.
An example of that this week is the ceasefire that was announced yesterday [January 15] between Hamas and Israel. The U.S. was instrumental negotiator with Qatar and Egypt. That was an example of parallel negotiations. I think it was critical to try to achieve a ceasefire, both from a humanitarian perspective of Palestinians in Gaza, but also the hostages that were taken on October 7, 2023, to include U.S. citizens.
So again, I think it’s a reminder that meeting with parties, and sometimes in diplomacy, requires meeting with those that you don’t like.
The United States considers Hamas a terrorist organization, and yet we were also committed to trying to find a ceasefire and secure the release of hostages of many nationalities including Americans.
Ambassador Kent presenting his credentials to President Alar Karis, in Feburary 2023. Source: Office of the President of the Republic of Estonia.
Trump has also said that NATO countries should increase their defense spending to 5 percent. Do you think that’s a reasonable amount?
I think it’s been clear for over a decade that members of NATO, particularly many European members of NATO, need to spend more on their own defense. This has been an issue.
It was first, I think, brought to public attention by outgoing Secretary of Defense Bob Gates in 2011, where he warned NATO allies that if European NATO countries did not spend more in their own defense, there would come a time where Americans and the American taxpayer would question, why are we paying for the defense of others who are unwilling to defend themselves?
So this is a conversation that has been going on for 15 years, actively at a very high level. I think that conversation will continue into the incoming Trump administration.
I think Estonian leaders have been very clear that what is in the interest of Estonia for its own protection is to spend more. Up until this past year, no country in NATO besides Poland spent more, as a percentage of the economy, than Estonia. And what we need collectively in NATO is for all countries who are part of this collective defense agreement to have the commitment that Estonia has and the United States has.
So this conversation will continue in the incoming Trump administration.
But is 5 percent achievable?
Well I think there are a couple of issues. Whether NATO collectively agrees at 5 percent or as some have suggested 3.5 percent might be meeting it in the middle between two and five, that’s a matter for the alliance. I think every country has to consider its own calculations of what it’s financing, what’s important.
I think it’s very clear that most members of NATO – not Estonia or the United States – up until very recently, have under-invested in their own defense, counting particularly on the United States to defend them if the moment came.
I think part of being a collective organization is everybody needs to take that obligation seriously. Estonia does, the United States does. We’re calling on all NATO members to do so.
Does the United States even see a reason to be a NATO anymore?
The United States is both a transatlantic and a trans-pacific country, and frankly we have always been, even though formally that has been the reality since 1945 after the end of the Second World War. Our interests are intimately tied with Europe, particularly in the economic sphere, but also in the security sphere.
The security of our allies and our prosperity of allies is also how we define our security and prosperity. Some countries choose to define national interests very narrowly. We choose to defend our national interests broadly to include the security, prosperity, and success of our allies. I think that has led not just to our success as a country over the last 80 years since 1945, but also not just on security but prosperity.
So I’m confident that that commitment to a shared set of security and prosperity will continue.
You are going to leave [Estonia] soon as well. There’s already a new person in line wanting to come to Estonia. What would your advice to him be?
Well, I think there’s a tradition of ambassadors who have left posts sharing their advice, but we do it privately. So I benefited from conversations with my predecessors who had served here before me, and I look forward at the appropriate moment of having a conversation with the Estonian-born American, whom incoming President Trump has indicated he would like to serve as ambassador here at Roman Pipiko. I don’t know him personally, but we will find an opportunity, I’m sure, to talk.
Ambassadors Ross Allen (UK) and Georgia Kent (U.S.) discussing their love of singing in the Kalamaja mixed choir. Source: Kairit Leibold / ERR
How would you sum up your time here?
I’ve had a wonderful time promoting U.S.-Estonian relations. I think there is so much good that happens in the relationship.
Today we’ve talked about the security side of the relationship, the increase in US Troops, the equipment that we’ve helped Estonia procure. In the last 10 years, the U.S. has provided almost $700 million in security assistance to Estonia.
There’s the law enforcement cooperation. It’s not just this latest $50 million transfer, which is the largest transfer outside of security assistance since the 1990s when USAID stopped. U.S. and Estonian law enforcement worked together to arrest criminals who are trying to smuggle goods and technology to Russia to help the war, cryptocurrency criminals that defraud not just Estonians, but people around the world. That success helps increase the integrity of the Estonian system and have confidence that the Estonian economy can’t be exploited by outsiders.
We have great economic ties. Estonian companies are now investing in the United States, U.S. companies continue to invest in Estonia. And when people ask me, is Estonia a safe place? There’s a war going on, Russia’s next door. The largest private employer in Narva, Fortaka, was bought out by a U.S. company in November of [20]22 after the wider invasion. Americans understand that NATO territory is NATO territory. Estonia is a great place to do business, and whether it is sheet metal manufacturing like Fortaka, whether it is the wood industry like Granul Invest, now also U.S. owned, or whether it’s cutting edge AI technology, artificial intelligence technology, Estonian great ideas and startups are partnering with American companies not just to access the U.S. Market but also U.S. Financing.
So I think whether it’s digital and high tech, whether it’s old school manufacturing, whether it’s renewables like the wood industry, there’s a lot going on in the U.S.– Estonian relationship and that will continue.
And then finally, there are people to people relations and whether it’s exchanges, whether it is cultural diplomacy, there is so much that goes on that binds the peoples of Estonia and the United States, and it’s been a privilege to be part of that process.
And now I’m going to ask you some more fun questions, but maybe they’re even more serious to our good relationship.
When the new U.S. embassy in Tallinn is be completed, do you think that people will assume that the street, Suur Ameerika, is named after the embassy?
Well, you know, it’s when I first arrived two years ago one of my early meetings was with the mayor of Tallinn because we were still looking for permissions to buy the property, which we did in June 23. The mayor’s office gave me the history of the names. I guess there was a pub or a hostel in the late 1700s named “America.” It doesn’t exist anymore, but that’s why there’s Suur America, Vaike America, and why the neighborhood is called Uus maa.
You couldn’t, as an American, couldn’t ask for a better place to have an embassy than a street called Big America in the New World neighborhood. So, I don’t know who deserves credit 200 plus years ago, and the building doesn’t exist anymore, but we’re happy to bring a 21st century element to what was initially an 18th century tradition.
What is your opinion on blood sausage?
I like it verivorst. I made it with other Estonian language students before I came. There’s an Estonian-American who lives in Alexandria [Virginia, U.S.], and she invites students, diplomats heading to Estonia every year to come to her apartment and do the whole process from the very beginning, including stuffing the intestines. So I enjoyed making it and I enjoy eating it. And so for the Christmas Eve dinner this year, we combined Estonian, U.S. and other heritages. So we roasted a turkey, an American turkey, but we also roasted verivorst.
How about meat jelly [sült]?
My wife loves it. I don’t.
George P. Kent and his wife at the President’s reception on Independence Day. Source: Siim Lõvi /ERR
Are you going to take the sauna with you?
I am. When I think about what life in Estonia is and what we could not do without, it starts with the sauna. My wife and kids visiting in their university break went to Rakvere yesterday and tried out 10 different saunas and we’re gonna buy one. We’ll have to ship the parts and then construct it in our backyard in Arlington, Virginia, but we will have a made in Estonia wood-fired sauna later this year.
Old Town Tallinn or Old Town Alexandria [Washington]?
Old Town Tallinn has about a couple hundred years additional history on it. I live in Arlington and there’s been this rivalry between Arlington and Alexandria also for a couple hundred years. Maybe not as intense as Tallinn and Tartu, but I prefer Arlington.
And the last one: what is your favorite Estonian word?
Wow. When I was learning Estonian, I was amazed at how many vowels there are in Estonian. I do not speak Estonian.
There’s this word, and there’s a rock group named after it, edge of the ice (Jäääär). And the idea that you can have a vowel, four different vowels, and you have to go, yeah, to make sure everyone knows there are four of them. I’m not sure any other language outside of Estonian and Finnish would do that. So I think there are a lot of words, but that’s the easy one for me to remember.
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Publish date : 2025-01-20 20:55:00
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